Robert Spencer in Damage Control After Terror Attack in Norway
Robert Spencer and fellow anti-Muslim loons are trying to disassociate themselves from one their greatest fans, the Oslo bomber Anders Behring Breivik.......
I posted the following comment on LoonWatch in response to the article mentioned above which blame the writings of "anti-Moslem bigots" like Spencer, Pam Geller and others for Anders Breivik's murderous rampage in Norway:
"KILLER MORE ANTI-NORWEGIAN THAN ANTI-MOSLEM
This psychotic mass murderer was more anti-Norwegian than anti-Moslem. His hatred for Norwegians was greater than his hatred of Moslems. If not he would have car bombed a Moslem mosque followed by a shooting spree of believers in a Moslem neighborhood."
In response Webdawah posted the following comment:
"The article clearly shows (with a link) how Robert Spencer fosters antagonism against Muslims, and the liberals, or anyone for that matter who treats Muslims with a “smidgen of fairness and tolerance.” Anders does not hate Norwegians, nor does he hate Norway. He hates that fact that people who don’t share his cultural values are allowed to emigrate into his country, and intended to punish the people whose policies bring about such assault to his xenophobia and bigotry.
At the end of the day, he still hates Muslims and the people left of his politics. Not one more than the other. Almost identical to how Osama bin Laden went “Loon.” His initial criticisms were for the Saudi government… and the rest is history."
To which I replied:
"Anders bitterly hates [his fellow] Norwegians for tolerating and fostering Moslem immigration into Norway, which to his mind is a crime. This rampage which killed over 80 Norwegians was a murderous hate crime against his own people-who by and large support Norway’s immigration policies toward Moslems (policies ruining Norwegian values and culture)."
Webdawah came back with this:
"If his rage was towards Norwegians as a whole, he would not be political. He would not aim his anger at the left. The left is not the whole of Norway… obviously."To which I replied:
"Norway is a center-left socialist country. Anders hates his country and its people (the vast majority) for being center-left [in their politics]. In short, his massacre of 80+ Norwegian citizens (mostly young people) is a hate crime against his country and race. Naturally he doesn’t hate those Norwegians who share his rage against his countrymen. But these radicals are few in number, despised and powerless."
In defense of Spencer and Geller I added this in a separate post:
HOW ARE SPENCER AND GELLER RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE ATROCITY IN NORWAY?
Where does Spencer or Geller say that the Norwegian people deserve the punishment of Norwegian on Norwegian mass murder as a lesson for being soft on Moslem immigration and in defending Western values? They’re no more to blame for those deaths than are Moslems who renounce political Islam and the violent atrocities and crimes of Mohammed, are at fault for jihadist attacks.
Webdawah responded with this:
"If Anders had quoted the Qur’an once in his long manifesto, Spencer, and Geller would have blamed it on Islam. If the guy had been a Muslim, they would have blamed it on Islam.
Guess what? The guy referenced Geller, and Spencer. They own him."
To which I replied (this was removed or never posted):
Also referenced in Breivik's manifesto are British philosopher John Stuart Mills, radical leftist writer Naomi Klein and Canadian peacemaker Lewis MacKenzie among others. I guess then Mills, Klein and MacKenzie also "own" Anders as well, and share in the responsiblity for his crime."
Not having seen this Webdawah never replied. But he wasn't the only one who responded to my posts. Salam for example wrote the following:
"Apollo. The thesis of his manifesto is that the western world is at war with Islam. In his mind, the war began when the ‘liberal, globalist, culturally marxist’ Nato decided to bomb Serbian forces. He describes in detail how the different phases of the war will evolve until Europe comes out victorious in 2084.
So he didn’t mass murder political youths because he was ‘anti-norwegian’ (really?), but because he considered them to be traitors in the ongoing war."
To which I replied (this too was never posted):
The vast majority of Norwegians support Norway's social democracy with its multicultural, politically correct, over tolerant values which Brievik believes underlies their self-destructive blindness to the growing threat of totalitarian Islam. Consequently this radical lunatic hates his countrymen and killed them to relieve his pent up anger and animosities which exploded on July 22nd. In short, Brievik's rampage was as much an anti-Norwegian hate crime as anything else.
Another poster named Rothwell then wrote this:
"ApolloSpeaks
Kindly do not stigmatize people with mental disorders by calling Breivik “psychotic.” He has no history of mental illness and there is no suggestion that he had breakdown and went on a rampage. His actions were the cold, deliberate and carefully calculated actions of a right-wing Christian terrorist who hated both Islam and liberals with equal fervor. His video he made just before his acts of terror is still widely available on the Internet, although YouTube has taken it down. In it he calls for a “Christian Crusade” against Islam in Europe that will be a “bloodbath” that will make WWWII look like a “picnic.” “KILLER MORE ANTI-NORWEGIAN THAN ANTI-MOSLEM,” as you stated is simply a falsehood. The terror in Norway is the direct result of years of right-wing hate speech by politicians and by the Islamophobe industry run by Spencer, Geller and their ilk and Geert Wilders and Herman Cain and the English Defense League and a host of other villains. They might as well have pulled the trigger themselves. Never forget that Joseph Goebbels, Reich Propaganda Minister, was one of Hitler’s closest advisers and one of the chief architects of the Holocaust, although he never actually did any of the hands on dirty work himself. The propagandists are just as guilty as the murderers for having intentionally incited the violence."
To this I replied (this was posted):
I stand corrected. The word I should have used is psycho [or psychopath] not “psychotic.” A man poisoned with deadly hatred against his own people because he believes they’re dangerously asleep to a lethal enemy within hell bent on destroying Norwegian culture in particular, and Western/Christrian civilization in general. A man driven to mass murdering his fellow citizens because he refuses any longer to be ignored, and wants their full undivided attention and that of the world. That I believe sums up this psycho. NO?
Then NassirH weighed in with this post:
"ApolloShrieks:
“HOW ARE SPENCER AND GELLER RESPONSIBLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE ATROCITY IN NORWAY?”
Well, they both contributed very significantly to his anti-Muslim worldview (incidentally, you share many of his opinions). The loon was clear about the aforementioned and the proof is incontrovertible. I don’t think any honest person can deny that."
To which I responded (this was posted):
"NASSIRH
No doubt that Breivik reads Spencer and Geller. No doubt bin Ladin read the Koran and Hadiths. No doubt that Breivik’s world view is influenced by Spencer and Geller as is mine. But whereas bin Ladin was acting on the violent words, deeds, and predatory principles of the Prophet Mohammed Spencer and Geller are civilized people (both religious humanists) with a peaceful liberal democratic outlook who’ve neither killed nor harmed anyone to advance their cause. To be sure some of Breivik’s thinking can be traced back to them, but not his murderous rage. The divide between them is so great you could drive Obama’s budget through it."
NassirH came back with this rebuttle:
"Using ApolloShrieks superb logic, “jihadists” are more anti-Muslim than anti-American because most of those they kill are Muslims. Or as ApolloShrieks would put it, “JIHADISTS MORE ANTI-MOSLEM THAN ANTI-AMERICAN!”
Breivik was clear about his motivations, regardless of how many desperate arguments loons use to defend their precious Islamophobia."
To which I replied (this was posted):
"Good analogy, Nassir. Breivik has much in common with jihdists who kill fellow Moslems because they are perceived, in the Prophet’s words, as “hypocrites” or insufficiently Islamic. In fact, most if not all jihadists consider such Moslems as the enemy within far more dangerous to Islam than infidel enemies. But where do Spencer and Geller call for the death of the enemy within? Those who are insufficiently Jewish or Christian? Those who are weak in the defense of liberty, American values, principles or Western ideals?"
This ended my argument with Nassir as he had nothing more to say. But that wasn't the end of it. Other Loonwatchers who disagreed with me were as follows:
Rob Says:
"Apollo writes:
“A man driven to mass murdering his fellow citizens because he refuses any longer to be ignored, and wants their full undivided attention and that of the world. That I believe sums up this psycho. NO?”
If the rabid anti-muslim ideology shared by yourself, Breivik, Spencer etc are merely delusions, then yes he is psychotic. He just finally acted on those delusions. Only a matter of time before other “anti-jihad freedom fighters” will."
To this I repiled:
"So you think that Breivik is the beginning of an international trend? That we can now expect “anti-Moslem” Brits to mass murder Brits; “anti-Moslem” French to mass murder French; “anti-Moslem” Americans to mass murder Americans all because they're not sufficiently “anti-Moslem” and don’t see the peril? If this should occur Islamists can take a holiday from jihad."
Rob had nothing further to say. But Safak posted the folowing:
"Apollo
Fine, so let Spencer and Geller stop blaming Imams in mosques who incite hatred against the West. Hey, they’re not saying “Kill all Westerners”, they’re perfectly civilized people who simply point out the issues in the West. It’s not their fault if someone blows himself up somewhere, right?"
Its a very simple logic: if you paint a bull’s eye on someone’s back, eventually somebody else will take the shot. Spencer and co. have been painting that bull’s eye on the Muslims back for almost a decade, and recently on the left’s back. It may have been Breivik who pulled the trigger, but clearly it was Spencer and co. who aimed it."
To which I replied (this was posted):
"Where in the writings of Spencer and Geller does it say that anti-Jihadists like themselves should kill non-Moslems or leftists who are soft on violent or non-violent jihadists? Or who are simply asleep to the threat of political Islam in their own countries? Where is this written? Where was this said?"
Safak fell silent but Corey added this:
"Apollo
spencer and geller peaceful? I call bullsh*t. on that what part of “nuke mecca” is peaceful, or is promoting a video of a girl calling for pakistan to be wiped off the map what you were talking about when you said peaceful please tell me because I don’t remember promoting nuclear annihilations of entire cities part of being promoting world peace."
In a similar vein Jack Cope wrote the following:
"Apollo I feel you sum your self up perfectly in the following:
“No doubt that Breivik reads Spencer and Geller. No doubt bin Ladin read the Koran and Hadith. No doubt that Breivik’s world view is influenced by Spencer and Geller as is mine. But whereas bin Ladin was acting on the violent words, deeds, and predatory principles of the Prophet Spencer and Geller are civilized people (both religious humanists) with a peaceful liberal democratic outlook who’ve neither killed nor harmed anyone to advance their cause. To be sure some of Breivik’s thinking can be traced back to them, but not his murderous rage. The divide between them is so great you could drive Obama’s budget through it.”
Let’s do an autopsy…
Apart from the funny bit about Spencer and Geller being civilized people this is odd. First of all, you are quite right to say that Spencer and Geller are very similar to Bin Ladan; Bin Ladan never killed anyone that he bragged about, he was merely a spokesman and source of material, just like Spencer and Geller can safely sit there and preach, just as Bin Ladan safely sat in a house for years. Sir David likens them to Lady Macbeth; they can wash their hands as much as they like but that spot is still there.
Secondly, the stuff about the Prophet; sure someone can take violent stuff from it and in fact Breivik goes *at length* in his writing to ‘prove’ that what he does is in line with Christian principles. All it proves is that you can get nutters anywhere and from anything; I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again but I could probably draw some hate stuff out of Harry Potter and start a cult on it. If the job fails I might just do that…
Thirdly, Breivik was very much acting on the words of people like Spencer and Geller (who as has been shown calls for the nuking of Mecca for example). They call for things like the expulsion of Muslims (one of his main goals), they pardon mass murderers in Serbia, they preach hate… anyone reading the comments section of these peoples sites can see what sort of thing this produces. Don’t BS me. Going back to Bin Laden; Bin Laden was never there directing people, he just provided material.
Also, I think that both Spencer and Geller will love that you called them liberals…"
My replies to Corey and Cope were as follows (these were posted):
"COREY
The issue is whether Spencer or Geller are somehow responsible for Breivik’s rampage in Norway. Not their alleged responsibility for an outraged Hindu girl calling for nuclear revenge against Pakistan for sponsoring Islamic terrorism in her country. Where in the books, blogs, speeches and interviews of Spencer and Geller could the maniac Breivik find justification for his bloody deeds? Cite chapter and verse please."
"JACK COPE
Spencer and Geller are similar to bin Laden? So where are their military camps training anti-jihadists to kill America’s Moslem foes? Where are their plans to hijack planes and fly them into skyscrapers in Moslem capitals? Or bomb bridges, jetliners and train stations?
As for “nuking Mecca” Geller was speaking in terms of Mutually Assured Destruction in the defense of Israel against the nuclear threat coming from Tehran. It puts Tehran on notice that the holy places of Islam are under Israel’s nuclear guns; and that if the mullahs should dare launch a first strike against Israel Mecca and Medina (as well as Teharn) would be incinerated in minutes.
The unwashable blood on S & G’s hands is a thing of your mind.
BTW, S & G are “liberals” in the classical sense of the term."
That concluded my debate on LoonWatch as my opponents had nothing more to say.
Civilizational savior in his own sick mind from the threat of Islam and Marxism Breivik's hatred takes aim at sleeping Norwegians.This evil, cold calculating killer probably chose the date July 22nd to commit his horrendous crime because it was the anniversary of the King David Hotel bombing in Jerusalem -as if the bombing of a military target in a war of independence was the equivalent of bombing a government building and shooting up a kids' camp to shock Norway out of its slumber.
BREIVIK'S MESSIAH COMPLEX
Summing up the above these are my thoughts about Breivik, Spencer and Geller:
Breivik is a lunatic with a messiah complex. He believes that he's the heaven sent savior of Norway and European civilization from Islamic political and cultural subversion, which is very real and growing. After many years of trying to awaken Norway to no avail Breivik completely lost his mind and humanity and came to insanely resent and hate his socialist country and people. In a fit of psychotic rage he decided that Norway would ignore his message and mission no more. So on July 22nd he struck his blow slaughtering 76 Norwegians as a blood sacrifice to his cause. As much as he hated Moslems he hated his people more. Breivik has made his mark on history and has entered the annals of infamy. In the end this mass murdering terrorist thug has more in common with the murdering, bloodthirsty prophet Mohammed than with the non-violent, world renouncing, ascetic Jesus Christ; more in common with Islamic jihadists like bin Laden than with peaceful, civilized, virtuous Americans like Robert Spencer and Pam Geller. Bash Spencer and Geller all you want it won't stop the counter-jihadist movement. The jihadists will see to that.
What do you think?
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